Hannah Lucinda Smith is the Times Newspaper correspondant in Istanbul. She has just written THE book on Erdogan. She explains why President Erdogan regards their expressions of national identity as an existential threat to the integrity of the Turkish state. She is followed by Michael Stephens, a Research fellow at RUSI. An expert in the history of the Kurds and Kurdistan, Michael explains who, what and where the Kurds are and the role that they have played in the region over the past century. This podcast goes deep into the past of the Middle East, via the formation of modern Turkey in the 1920s to the present day and the electoral ambitions of the Turkish president.